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Neike Taika-Tessaro
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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Location: Germany
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 Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:20 am Post subject: DA constitution - Draft |
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This is the exact copy of the (fictional) Dark Arcadian constitution in Crimson Feather:
§1 Individuality
(1) An individual is a verifiable consciousness carried by any biological, mechanical or electronic entity. (2) The term describes the consciousness, not the vessel that it possesses. (3) The consciousness is defined on spawning - later changes of vessel do not affect the definition of the individual.
§2 Maturity
(1) Maturity is a label for the Individual's height of awareness of the environment and understanding of complex systems, and is attainable by any Individual. (2) It is attained between the eighth (exclusive) and twenty-first (inclusive) years of life, and attributed to the individual solely by it's social mentors. (3) When applied, the state is obligated to recognise the label, and treat the Individual as a Mature Individual.
§3 Social Mentor
(1) A social mentor is an individual who has taken it upon themselves to raise and nurture another, primarily in educating and secondarily in physical care. (2) On default, an individual has two social mentors: the biological father and biological mother of its vessel. (3) Disputes of mentorship must be resolved by the nation's judicature via the psychological polling of the individuals, and the decision being felled in favour of the one better grounded in Arcadian philosophy.
§4 Citizenship
(1) A Mature Individual is a Citizen if they have successfully applied for Citizenship. (2) Individuals cannot be Citizens if they have not matured. (3) Individuals cannot be Citizens until the application has been approved. (4) There is no requirement as to the age of a Mature Individual on submission of the application. (5) There is no time limit on the submission of the application. (6) The application itself contains a psychological test, the taking of which is subject to a time limit. (7) An application can only be filed once.
§5 Government
(1) Each Citizen is obliged to heed the commands of those who outrank it in natural hierarchy. (2) A natural hierarchy is ordered by those with most merit situated at its top. (3) The Citizen at the top of this hierarchy may call itself Archon.
§6 Nation
(1) Our Nation is defined as the Mature Individuals subjecting themselves to the Government as described in §5. (2) The Nation is obliged to serve its Citizens.
§7 Property
(1) Every Individual has the right to their own property. (2) It may not be taken from them. (3) It is the government's responsibility to protect the property of each Individual. (4) It is the government's responsibility to protect the Individual's right to do what they please with their property.
§8 Defence
(1) Our Nation is allied with Europe under the condition we have no military force. (2) In turn, Europe has acknowledged our Nation's existence and will offer military support in times of need.
Last edited by Neike Taika-Tessaro on Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Neike Taika-Tessaro
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Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 126
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: Re: DA constitution - Draft |
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- with colloquially discussed and approved sections highlighted. Ideally, discussing these would be beating a dead horse, but if you have something to add, anyway, please do so. 
- expanded / contracted to reflect reality ( DA in CF is allied with Europe constitutionally for historic reasons that simply don't apply here  ), and to mention what has been discussed, but is not (explicitely) stated in the fictional constitution excerpt.
Aspects not meant for the constitution:
- denial of international human rights.
§1 Individuality
(1) An individual is a verifiable consciousness carried by any biological, mechanical or electronic entity. (2) The term describes the consciousness, not the vessel that it possesses. (3) The consciousness is defined on spawning - later changes of vessel do not affect the definition of the individual.
§2 Maturity
(1) Maturity is a label for the Individual's height of awareness of the environment and understanding of complex systems, and is attainable by any Individual. (2) It is attained between the eighth (exclusive) and twenty-first (inclusive) years of life, and attributed to the individual solely by it's social mentors. (3) When applied, the state is obligated to recognise the label, and treat the Individual as a Mature Individual.
§3 Social Mentor
(1) A social mentor is an individual who has taken it upon themselves to raise and nurture another, primarily in educating and secondarily in physical care. (2) On default, an individual has two social mentors: the biological father and biological mother of its vessel. (3) Disputes of mentorship must be resolved by the nation's judicature via the psychological polling of the individuals, and the decision being felled in favour of the one better grounded in Arcadian philosophy.
§4 Citizenship
(1) A Mature Individual is a Citizen if they have successfully applied for Citizenship. (2) Individuals cannot be Citizens if they have not matured. (3) Individuals cannot be Citizens until the application has been approved. (4) There is no requirement as to the age of a Mature Individual on submission of the application. (5) There is no time limit on the submission of the application. (6) The application itself contains a psychological test, the taking of which is subject to a time limit. (7) An application can only be filed once. (9) The Nation is obligated to recognise the name by which their new Citizen referred to themselves in the application.
§5 Government
(1) Each Citizen is obliged to heed the commands of those who outrank it in natural hierarchy. (2) A natural hierarchy is ordered by those with most merit situated at its top. (3) The Citizen at the top of this hierarchy may call itself Archon.
§6 Nation
(1) Our Nation is defined as the Mature Individuals subjecting themselves to the Government as described in §5. (2) The Nation is obliged to serve its Citizens.
§7 Property
(1) Every Individual has the right to their own property. (2) It may not be taken from them or damaged without their consent. (3) It is the government's responsibility to protect the property of each Individual. (4) It is the government's responsibility to protect the Individual's right to do what they please with their property.
§8 Defence
(No constitutional entry (yet).) |
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BLusk
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to see a preamble that states the most core principles of the Dark Arcadian concept. Maybe along the lines of:
We, the founders of Dark Arcadia, recognize the Merit of the Individual above all else, and acting upon the desire to be governed and govern by Merit, do hereby state the founding principles of the Nation of Dark Arcadia. Be it known to all that we believe Merit to be the only sustainable form for the Government and Organization of Humankind, that the individual has the ability to submit themself to the leadership of those most qualified, and that by so doing, ensures success and prosperity for themselves and others. As such, we do organize ourselves to this belief under the following Core Principles:
--continue constitution--
Brian
P.S. This is just what I whipped off in a couple minutes, which may or may not reflect the core principles accurately. As such, I invite others to compose preambles or modify this preamble to accurately reflect what you desire. |
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Neike Taika-Tessaro
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| Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| So, any objections, by anyone? |
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BLusk
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| Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:11 am Post subject: |
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I'll come up with a point-by-point discussion of the draft constitution over the next couple days. First off, it is not complete, by any means. However, I encourage people to submit their well-thought-out ideas for additional key points. PLEASE! That way, a more robust constitution will result.
Brian |
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Neike Taika-Tessaro
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| BLusk wrote: | | I'll come up with a point-by-point discussion of the draft constitution over the next couple days. |
Thank you, BLusk. I assume that'll be ridiculously useful, and hopefully flatten out the wrinkles of my whimsical attemps.
And you're sure you don't want to be a Citizen of DA? |
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Whit Porter
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| Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Neike Taika-Tessaro wrote: | | And you're sure you don't want to be a Citizen of DA? |
*coughs*clubandchainhim*cough*
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BLusk
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Whit Porter wrote: | *coughs*clubandchainhim*cough*
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Yeah, you see how far you get with that club and chain, Whit! I'll smack you back with the might of my logic and meritorious ideas! And then, I'll challenge the DA military to a duel... wait, there isn't a DA military! HEE HEE!
Brian |
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BLusk
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:34 am Post subject: Re: DA constitution - Draft |
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The Constitution of the Nation of Dark Arcadia
| BLusk wrote: | | We, the founders of Dark Arcadia, recognize the Merit of the Individual above all else, and acting upon the desire to be governed and govern by Merit, do hereby state the founding principles of the Nation of Dark Arcadia. Be it known to all that we believe Merit to be the only sustainable form for the Government and Organization of Humankind, that the individual has the ability to submit themself to the leadership of those most qualified, and that by so doing, ensures success and prosperity for themselves and others. As such, we do organize ourselves to this belief under the following Core Principles: |
This preamble was written by myself in a few moments. I wish people would consider this and add their own thoughts as to what belongs in the preamble.
| Neike Taika-Tessaro wrote: | §1 Individuality
(1) An individual is a verifiable consciousness carried by any biological, mechanical or electronic entity. (2) The term describes the consciousness, not the vessel that it possesses. (3) The consciousness is defined on spawning - later changes of vessel do not affect the definition of the individual. |
I find this section to be a trifle vague and to my mind. Not sure precisely what you are intending to accomplish with this wording, but here's my best take...
(1) An individual is a verifiable, self-aware consciousness. (2) A consciousness may be carried by any entity, biological, mechanical or electronic. (3) Once an individual has been recognized, the entity in which said individual resides does not affect the status of the individual. (4) An individual cannot be denied privileges or citizenship within Dark Arcadia based solely on the nature of the entity in which said consciousness is contained.
I like the idea of putting a finer point on what qualifies as a consciousness, and by what test it may be determined, but exactly what test that would be is beyond my current knowledge.
| Neike Taika-Tessaro wrote: | §2 Maturity
(1) Maturity is a label for the Individual's height of awareness of the environment and understanding of complex systems, and is attainable by any Individual. (2) It is attained between the eighth (exclusive) and twenty-first (inclusive) years of life, and attributed to the individual solely by it's social mentors. (3) When applied, the state is obligated to recognise the label, and treat the Individual as a Mature Individual. |
My primary concern about this paragraph is the idea that a social mentor is the only way in which a person might be recognized as mature. And, what are the rules for maturity when a person joins DA after the age of 21? Translation, the age requirement is questionable, and the social mentor's exclusive rights in this regard are worrisome. And, suppose an individual is not declared mature by his social mentor when he/she turns 22? Do they automatically gain the status? Is the status conferred by a panel? A committee? A test? Additional discussion is really needed, and the results put into words.
| Neike Taika-Tessaro wrote: | §3 Social Mentor
(1) A social mentor is an individual who has taken it upon themselves to raise and nurture another, primarily in educating and secondarily in physical care. (2) On default, an individual has two social mentors: the biological father and biological mother of its vessel. (3) Disputes of mentorship must be resolved by the nation's judicature via the psychological polling of the individuals, and the decision being felled in favour of the one better grounded in Arcadian philosophy. |
I like the wording of this in general. It needs some cleaning up, but otherwise I have no real conceptual issues with it.
(1) A social mentor is an individual who has taken it upon themselves to raise and nurture another, primarily in educating and secondarily in physical care. (2) An individual has two social mentors by default, specifically, its biological father and biological mother. (3) Disputes regarding mentorship must be resolved by the nation's Judiciary. (4) The Judiciary must use the psychological evaluation of the individuals to determine the best social mentor, and favour the individual who is best grounded in Arcadian philisophical principles.
| Neike Taika-Tessaro wrote: | §4 Citizenship
(1) A Mature Individual is a Citizen if they have successfully applied for Citizenship. (2) Individuals cannot be Citizens if they have not matured. (3) Individuals cannot be Citizens until the application has been approved. (4) There is no requirement as to the age of a Mature Individual on submission of the application. (5) There is no time limit on the submission of the application. (6) The application itself contains a psychological test, the taking of which is subject to a time limit. (7) An application can only be filed once. (9) The Nation is obligated to recognise the name by which their new Citizen referred to themselves in the application. |
Hm... there are some wording problems here... so let's fix them:
(1) An individual is a Citizen if the following conditions are met: (a) The individual must be considered Mature in accordance with Section 2, (b) The citizenship application must be properly submitted and approved by the proper Dark Arcadian authority, and (c) The individual has not been previously rejected for citizenship. (2) There is no age limitation or prerequisite for citizenship. (3) The nation of Dark Arcadia is not required to process your application under any particular time limit. (4) The application, once submitted, does not expire, and may be given a final status at any time after submission. (5) The application contains a psychological evaluation test, the taking of which is subject to a time limit of ____ minutes. (6) An individual may apply for citizenship only once, and may not resubmit the application. (7) The nation is obligated to recognize the name by which their new citizen referred to themselves in the application.
| Neike Taika-Tessaro wrote: | §5 Government
(1) Each Citizen is obliged to heed the commands of those who outrank it in natural hierarchy. (2) A natural hierarchy is ordered by those with most merit situated at its top. (3) The Citizen at the top of this hierarchy may call itself Archon. |
I like this as written, but it is incomplete. We need an actual layout of the government. I propose a simple judicial/executive branch setup. Legislative is supposed to be based solely on merit, thus removing the need for it in theory. As such...
(1) Each citizen is obliged to heed the commands of those who outrank it in the natural heirarchy. (2) A natural hierarchy is ordered by those with the most merit situated at its top. (3) The Citizen at the top of this hierarchy is the chief executive of the nation of Dark Arcadia and may call itself Archon. (4) The Executive Branch is to consist of a chief executive, known as Archon; two assistant executives, known as the First Assistant to the Archon and Second Assistant to the Archon; and additional executives and staff as determined by the Archon. (5) The Judiciary Branch is to consist of a chief judge, known as the Archon of the Judiciary; two assistant judges, known as the First Assistant Judge and Second Assistant Judge; and additional judges and staff as determined by the Archon of the Judiciary. (a) The Archon of the Judiciary is appointed by the Archon. (6) The Judiciary branch is subserviant to the Executive branch except in the case of an investigation of the Executive branch specifically on the charge of the Executive branch not using proper Arcadian principles to allow the natural heirarchy to exist in accordance with the merit of the individuals. (a) In such an event, the Judiciary has the power to depose the Archon and replace them with the most meritous individual in the Executive branch starting with the First Assistant to the Archon. (b) This action may only be taken with a unanimous decision of the Archon of the Judiciary, the First Assistant Judge and the Second Assistant Judge.
This is a lot of meat, and no discussion has taken place. The idea is to give a starting point for discussion. So, start discussing. Is a judiciary even needed? Does it need the powers listed? Do the leadership positions make sense? Is a legislative branch required? This is rough outline stuff, rather than final text. What is the layout of the government you envision?
| Neike Taika-Tessaro wrote: | §6 Nation
(1) Our Nation is defined as the Mature Individuals subjecting themselves to the Government as described in §5. (2) The Nation is obliged to serve its Citizens. |
Probably needs expanded, but nothing is coming to me at the moment.
| Neike Taika-Tessaro wrote: | §7 Property
(1) Every Individual has the right to their own property. (2) It may not be taken from them or damaged without their consent. (3) It is the government's responsibility to protect the property of each Individual. (4) It is the government's responsibility to protect the Individual's right to do what they please with their property. |
This makes sense as written thus far. Does it need expanded? See my comments in the defense section.
| Neike Taika-Tessaro wrote: | §8 Defence
(No constitutional entry (yet).) |
Probably need to make provisions for a police force here. Military? Some provision might be made, but if you are going to take on the responsibility to protect an individual's property rights, you need at least a police force. I would recommend granting the right at this point, but not committing to protection until you have the ability to protect it. Debate and discussion needed.
And that's my initial remarks, point by point. Some sections could still use further expansion. And there are still entire topics left untouched. But, this is a start.
Brian |
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Neike Taika-Tessaro
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: Re: DA constitution - Draft |
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I'm waiting to be picked up to do silly things with a few fellow programmers, so I don't have that much time. However, one thing strikes me as incredibly important:
| BLusk wrote: | | And, suppose an individual is not declared mature by his social mentor when he/she turns 22? Do they automatically gain the status? |
Yes. That's the whole point of defining an upper limit (and takes care of all your other questions, too) - so that the "worrysome authority aspect" is defused. Though I suppose we could add a line about that, if the social mentor can bring forth grave concerns against this automatic inclusion, that they don't get that status just yet.
| BLusk wrote: | | (5) The application contains a psychological evaluation test, the taking of which is subject to a time limit of ____ minutes. |
No. I specifically wouldn't want the exact time in the constitution. I would want that to be varyable as by the government at the time - as Citizen apps change, so should the time limits. (I realise that means an Archon would have the ability to give applicants a twenty page test and give you 1 minute for it but honestly, I don't see what gain they'd have from that, or what could be done against it (even with a set time, but variable Citizen apps - which I'm adamant about keeping, because... well, honestly, I hate unflexible systems, heh.)).
*skips off to work* c.c |
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BLusk
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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That's no problem about the time limit. Old habit to spell out everything so that it isn't left to chance. Or stupidity.
Yes, if the status is automatically granted at 22, then the problem is solved in general.
Brian the Tired One |
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Neike Taika-Tessaro
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| Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:03 am Post subject: Re: DA constitution - Draft |
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*hotwires Dark Arcadia - the engine whines into motion again* Note to self - never misplace your carkeys again.
| Preamble, by BLusk, wrote: | | We, the founders of Dark Arcadia, recognize the Merit of the Individual above all else, and acting upon the desire to be governed and govern by Merit, do hereby state the founding principles of the Nation of Dark Arcadia. Be it known to all that we believe Merit to be the only sustainable form for the Government and Organization of Humankind, that the individual has the ability to submit themself to the leadership of those most qualified, and that by so doing, ensures success and prosperity for themselves and others. As such, we do organize ourselves to this belief under the following Core Principles: |
I have no objections to make but one: "Be it known to all that we believe Merit to be the only sustainable form for the Government" - it's fairly clear that Democracy and some forms of tyranny are indeed sustainable - so this at least reads a bit awkwardly, as though we were denying facts. Maybe I don't quite understand the point the sentence tries to make, though?
I also have nothing to add - this still reads as very complete to me even after reading it for the nth time. Though keep in mind I'm very new to nation making. (Great excuse, isn't it?)
| §1 Individuality, by BLusk, wrote: | | (1) An individual is a verifiable, self-aware consciousness. (2) A consciousness may be carried by any entity, biological, mechanical or electronic. (3) Once an individual has been recognized, the entity in which said individual resides does not affect the status of the individual. (4) An individual cannot be denied privileges or citizenship within Dark Arcadia based solely on the nature of the entity in which said consciousness is contained. |
Yes, that's a lot more precise than what originally stood there - but you did understand it correctly, so it can't have been all wrong. Still, this is clearly better - much thanks.
| BLusk wrote: | | I like the idea of putting a finer point on what qualifies as a consciousness, and by what test it may be determined, but exactly what test that would be is beyond my current knowledge. |
True - consciousness isn't really defined yet. Tell you what, I'll spend some time on wikipedia. As for tests, I doubt there are any, but a definition for use by future tests should any be developed is definitely important.
| §3 Social Mentor, by BLusk, wrote: | | (1) A social mentor is an individual who has taken it upon themselves to raise and nurture another, primarily in educating and secondarily in physical care. (2) An individual has two social mentors by default, specifically, its biological father and biological mother. (3) Disputes regarding mentorship must be resolved by the nation's Judiciary. (4) The Judiciary must use the psychological evaluation of the individuals to determine the best social mentor, and favour the individual who is best grounded in Arcadian philisophical principles. |
Again, improved - but the biological father/mother is a bit dodgy without the 'vessel' thing. Afterall, how do you determine father and mother of a consciousness? This should be defined - and that was the idea of including that 'vessel' phrase in the original wording. I can't think of a replacement wording right now, but I've got it on my to do (as with the wikipedia thing).
| §4 Citizenship, by BLusk wrote: | | (1) An individual is a Citizen if the following conditions are met: (a) The individual must be considered Mature in accordance with Section 2, (b) The citizenship application must be properly submitted and approved by the proper Dark Arcadian authority, and (c) The individual has not been previously rejected for citizenship. (2) There is no age limitation or prerequisite for citizenship. |
That's not quite true, though, is it? There are prerequisites - particularly, the one that Citizenship Application hasn't been rejected before, mentioned even in the sentence before - so perhaps, simply: (2) There are no other prerequisites for Citizenship. - That would also take care of the age limitation thing, wouldn't it? Specifically since I find it confusing to note extra, as again, that seems to contradict the 'Maturity' requirement (I know it doesn't, technically, but it reads that way at first glance, and I think legalese is already bad enough ).
| §4 Citizenship, by BLusk wrote: | | (3) The nation of Dark Arcadia is not required to process your application under any particular time limit. |
That reads as though it's about giving Dark Arcadia the right to, when your Application has been submitted, delay checking it. That's not what the original statement is supposed to mean, though - au contraire, it might be good to include something like a timelimit for the Dark Arcadian part (though I'm unsure what would happen if it passed by).
The idea was that a Citizen can request a Citizen Application Form, and fill it out in five years only, if that's what they want (but then, in one, timed, go). I guess it might be a bit pointless, but it strikes me as important to personal freedom. Thoughts?
| §4 Citizenship, by BLusk wrote: | | (4) The application, once submitted, does not expire, and may be given a final status at any time after submission. |
Hm, strike the "and may be given a final status at any time after submission", for reasons mentioned above?
| §4 Citizenship, by BLusk wrote: | | (5) The application contains a psychological evaluation test, the taking of which is subject to a time limit. (6) An individual may apply for citizenship only once, and may not resubmit the application. (7) The nation is obligated to recognize the name by which their new citizen referred to themselves in the application. |
Good! Thank you.
| BLusk wrote: | | I like [§5 Government] as written, but it is incomplete. We need an actual layout of the government. I propose a simple judicial/executive branch setup. Legislative is supposed to be based solely on merit, thus removing the need for it in theory. As such... |
This should be debated out, really - personally, I think a natural hierarchy barely allows for 'branches', but I think a judicial system is very important to isolate from the legislative - I'm not so sure about the executive. I know, giving everyone the right to act on decisions of the judicial system is hairy... but the idea I've got in the back of my mind is that Dark Arcadia should be a nation where each Citizen has civil obligation and the associated courage to intervene in case of criminal acts, and, most importantly, the right to at least temporarily jail someone. Maybe not full executive rights - that might be pushing it - but I'm not so sure where to draw the line right now.
Being unsure, I can't comment on the paragraph yet, either, though let it be known that I approve of the better wording of (3).
You have later comments referring to executive branches, so I'll skip those points, too, and thus conclude this post.
And now I'm going to connect a few electrical wires to our other Arcan friends. |
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Neike Taika-Tessaro
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:21 am Post subject: |
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I haven't read this yet, but it might be useful for reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness
I'll try and read that tomorrow. If anyone else wants to beat me to it, go right ahead. |
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Neike Taika-Tessaro
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Still reading, but here's a few interesting bits:
| Wikipedia article on 'Soul' wrote: | | Plato, drawing on the words of his teacher Socrates, considered the soul as the essence of a person, being that which decides how we behave. |
| Wikipedia article on 'Soul' wrote: | | An oft-encountered analogy is that the brain is to computer hardware as the mind is to computer software. |
| Wikipedia article on 'Soul' wrote: | | Roger Penrose expounds this position in The Emperor's New Mind[5]. He posits that the mind is in fact not like a computer as generally understood, but rather a quantum computer, that can do things impossible on a classical computer, such as decide the halting problem. |
Rather detailed, but might also be a basis for a definition:
| Wikipedia article on 'Soul' wrote: | The Platonic soul comprises three parts:
- the logos (mind, nous, superego, or reason)
- the thymos (emotion, ego, or spiritedness)
- the pathos (appetitive, id, or carnal)
Each of these has a function in a balanced and peaceful soul.
The logos equates to the mind. It corresponds to the charioteer, directing the balanced horses of appetite and spirit. It allows for logic to prevail, and for the optimisation of balance.
The thymos comprises our emotional motive, that which drives us to acts of bravery and glory. If left unchecked, it leads to hubris -- the most fatal of all flaws in the Greek view.
The pathos equates to the appetite that drives humankind to seek out its basic bodily needs. When the passion controls us, it drives us to hedonism in all forms. In the Ancient Greek view, this is the basal and most feral state. |
What's important, I find, is that whatever definition we end up having, it should make no statement about whether or not such a consciousness/soul is bound to a body or is free to change it. In Crimson Feather, it would make sense to claim latter (there is evidence for it there), but this isn't Crimson Feather, this is the real world, and there, there's no real hard evidence either is true. I'm making a note of this because many people do 'define' "soul" or the likes as something seperate. I'd like to stray from any statement of the sort.
Also, this seems significant to me, though it might just be opening a can of worms:
| Wikipedia article on 'Mirror neuron' wrote: | | A mirror neuron is a neuron which fires both when an animal performs an action and when the animal observes the same action performed by another (especially conspecific) animal. Thus, the neuron "mirrors" the behavior of another animal, as though the observer were himself performing the action. These neurons have been observed in primates, in some birds, and in humans. |
Also fun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness. |
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Neike Taika-Tessaro
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:10 am Post subject: |
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Mmm, definitions.
| Wikipedia article on 'Emergence' wrote: | | According to an emergent perspective, intelligence emerges from the connections between neurons, and from this perspective it is not necessary to propose a "soul" to account for the fact that brains can be intelligent, even though the individual neurons of which they are made are not. |
| Wikipedia article on 'Consciousness' wrote: | | These discoveries suggest that the mind is a complex structure derived from various localized functions that are bound together with a unitary awareness. |
| Wikipedia article on 'Consciousness' wrote: | | Some electroneurobiological interpretations of consciousness characterize this loss of consciousness as a loss of the ability to resolve time (similar to playing an old phonographic record at very slow or very rapid speed), along a continuum that starts with inattention, continues on sleep, and arrives to coma and death. |
| Wikipedia article on 'Consciousness' wrote: | | [..] and suggests a variety of functions in which consciousness plays an important, if not essential, role: prioritization of alternatives, problem solving, decision making, brain processes recruiting, action control, error detection, planning, learning, adaptation, context creation, and access to information. |
Very useful:
| Wikipedia article on 'Consciousness' wrote: | | The application to consciousness is that, according to some philosophers, anything capable of passing the Turing test as well as a person is necessarily conscious. |
But:
| Wikipedia article on 'Turing test' wrote: | 1 . A machine passing the Turing test may be able to simulate human conversational behaviour, but this may be much weaker than true intelligence. The machine might just follow some cleverly devised rules. A common rebuttal in the AI community has been to ask, "How do we know humans don't just follow some cleverly devised rules?" Two famous examples of this line of argument against the Turing test are John Searle's Chinese room argument and Ned Block's Blockhead argument.
2 . A machine may very well be intelligent without being able to chat like a human.
3 . Many humans that we'd probably want to consider intelligent might fail this test (e.g., the young or the illiterate). On the other hand, the intelligence of fellow humans is almost always tested exclusively based on their utterances. |
Another actual test (which I've also heard of, but personally think nothing of):
| Wikipedia article on 'Consciousness' wrote: | | With the mirror test, devised by Gordon Gallup in the 1970s, one is interested in whether animals are able to recognize themselves in a mirror. Such self-recognition is said to be an indicator of consciousness. Humans (older than 18 months), great apes (except for gorillas), and bottlenose dolphins have all been observed to pass this test. |
Can of worms:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-time_theories_of_consciousness
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_theories_of_consciousness
Slight un-can-of-worms-ing of the previous can of worms (previous post):
| Wikipedia article on 'Consciousness' wrote: | | Because humans express their conscious states using language, it is tempting to equate language abilities and consciousness. |
(... and there are arguments for and against this being true, yadda, yadda; seems it's a good approximation, though)
And I've yet to read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind - but I think I'm giving up for today. |
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